wfn.org | Interview with LWF General Secretary Ishmael Noko

[FRANK_IMHOFF.parti@ecunet.org (FRANK IMHOFF)]

LWI Daily News Service, 1/99, No.4
Date:1 February 1999

Interview with LWF General Secretary Ishmael Noko
on current ecumenical concerns

1. The World Council of Churches and the Christian World Communions

LWI: What, in your view, is the significance of  the Eighth Assembly in
Harare for the future of the World Council of Churches (WCC)?

Noko: The WCC is still the widest expression and instrument of the
worldwide ecumenical movement. The discussions and decisions of its Eighth
Assembly  indicate clearly the readiness of the organization to involve
itself directly and openly with the challenges it is presently facing.
That is decisive. The future will see a gradual repositioning of the
organization, of which the process relating to the policy statement A
Common Understanding and Vision is an important beginning.  The results to
be anticipated from that process are not clear at this time. But the
commitment to the process was clearly expressed by the Assembly. The WCC
member churches and the Christian World Communions (CWC) should follow
this process actively.

LWI: How do you see the future participation of the CWC, or church
families, in the WCC?

Noko: This is the time for both the WCC member churches and the CWC to
strongly reaffirm their commitment to the WCC and to support  all efforts
made which may help the WCC to fulfill its  ecumenical purpose. The CWC,
or church families, are networks of churches where common witness and
service are promoted with inner coherence on the local, national, regional
and world levels. The ecumenical importance of these networks is gradually
becoming clearer. This is expressed in the increasing number of  bilateral
ecumenical relations.

LWI: What, in your view, was most important in the decision of the WCC
Assembly in this connection?

Noko: The Assembly Policy and Reference Committee (RC-1, VII) called for a
process to "facilitate and strengthen the relationships between the WCC
and CWC as called for in the Common Understanding and Vision  (CUV)." This
resolution  represents an historical development in the history of the
WCC. Its specified aim is "to foster cooperation, effectiveness, and
efficiency." The introduction to the resolution states that advances in
the debate on models of unity are the direct result of common engagement
between the WCC and CWC, and that the focus on ecclesial self-
understanding, as manifested by some of the CWC, is a part of this common
engagement. I am happy that this is mentioned explicitly , and also that
it is underscored that the WCC should recognize the particular historical
and ecclesiological significance of the effort to strengthen the
relationship with the various CWC.

LWI: How would you comment on the decision of the Assembly regarding the
proposal for a Forum of Christian Churches and Ecumenical Organizations?

Noko: I find it interesting that the Assembly essentially puts the future
of the proposal for a "Forum"  in the hands of the Central Committee. I
believe this is the best way forward for the exploration of that proposal.
The LWF will participate in the continued discussion around this idea. 
The main thrust should, however, in any case be directed to the renewal
and future development of the WCC itself.  It will be an important task
for the new Central Committee to avoid any lowering of the level of
ambition of the WCC as a world council. The Central Committee should
actively seek to find the ways in which the WCC can most genuinely express
in itself  the conciliarity of the ecumenical process. I wish that, in
years to come, the WCC may continue to evolve as the most comprehensive
and most concrete expression of our common search for visible Christian
unity.

2. On the recent "Bull of Indiction of the Great Jubilee 2000" by Pope
John Paul II

LWI: On the first Sunday of Advent 1998 Pope John Paul II published his
bull Incarnationis Mysterium. A part of this letter is the decree defining
"Condition for gaining the Jubilee Indulgence." For many people, the very
issue of "indulgences" brings memories of the controversy which triggered
the Lutheran reformation in 1517. How would you comment on this bull
appearing at this time?

Noko: For many Lutherans, not so familiar with Roman Catholic theology,
this bull came as a surprise. The granting of indulgence for the
punishment for sins is not a common practice in the Roman Catholic Church.
We therefore think of this issue as something belonging to the past. For
some Roman Catholics the issue is less strange, since a special indulgence
has been declared for jubilee years for the last 600 years! The last one
was the Extraordinary Jubilee in 1983.  But I  frankly think that many
Roman Catholics too have felt the need to check their catechisms to remind
themselves of the significance of this element in the Roman Catholic
tradition.

LWI: In school we learned that the mediaeval granting of indulgences is
what made Luther emphasize so strongly that we are justified by faith. How
does this bull harmonize with the doctrine of justification?

Noko: I would first of all say that this is a question for the Roman
Catholic Church to respond to. The granting of indulgence is not part of
the Lutheran tradition.  We recognize that the granting indulgence in the
Roman Catholic Church does not mean that believers are able - on their
own, and by their own works - to buy pardon for their sins. Justification
can only take place, also according to Roman Catholic teaching, on the
basis of God's gracious work in Christ. This is strongly emphasized in the
bull itself. In the Roman Catholic tradition, however, there is a concern
with the consequences of sin, or the damage which is caused by sin, if you
like. This is a pastoral concern, relating to what we usually call
sanctification.

LWI: What theological challenges do you see in the bull?

Noko: The main question with direct relevance for our future dialogue, is
certainly in the area of ecclesiology, the doctrine on the church. The
granting of indulgence in the Roman Catholic Church is based on the
doctrine of "treasures of the church" which are acquired by the good works
of Christ and the saints, and the church is regarded as the custodian of
this treasure. This topic is one of several important elements of teaching
which need to be addressed in our dialogue in the years ahead. It is clear
that for us the doctrine of justification also has something to say in
this regard.

LWI: Does this bull put breaks on the development of Lutheran - Roman
Catholic relations?

Noko: As communions, we are deeply committed on both sides to our
historical traditions. The longstanding Roman Catholic practice related to
indulgences must be seen in that perspective. We have no reason to think
that this bull has been issued by the Pope now in order to provoke
ecumenical partners! But at the same time it is clear that the  topic of
the bull and the decree must be thoroughly processed in our continued
relations - in the spirit of dialogue to which Pope John Paul II invites
representatives of Christian churches in his encyclical letter of 1995 "Ut
Unum Sint".

LWI: Does this bull affect the position of the LWF Council on the Joint
Declaration?

Noko: No, not as such. It does not contain any new Roman Catholic
doctrine. But at the same time it makes it clear how important the
continued discussion of the doctrine of justification is. We have never
pretended that we have reached full agreement with the Roman Catholic
Church on every aspect of the doctrine of justification or its
consequences. In the resolution adopted by the LWF Council in June 1998,
the LWF is specifically encouraged to explore jointly with the Roman
Catholic Church the pastoral consequences of the agreements in the Joint
Declaration. The resolution also emphasizes the need for further common
investigation of the consequences of the doctrine of justification for
specific areas of teaching and practice in the church. Also in view of the
striking historical connotations of the topic I expect that this bull will
be granted due attention in the continued Lutheran - Roman Catholic
dialogue.

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