wfn.org | News Conference, January 5, 2001: Called to Common Mission celebration

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2001-2

News Conference, January 5, 2001: Called to Common Mission celebration

     Participants:
     ECUSA Presiding Bishop Frank Tracy Griswold (FTG)
     ELCA Presiding Bishop H. George Andersen (HGA)
     ECUSA The Rev. Canon David W. Perry (DWP)
     ELCA The Rev. Daniel F. Martensen (DFM)

     (Following introductory remarks by John Brooks, ELCA News Service.)

     FTG: I was just thinking we're in Washington, a polarized city with a 
government that seems to live with a great deal of angularity and is trying to 
find a common center. And so my sense is that entering into full communion, among 
other things, is a sign to a divided world that at least the Evangelical Lutheran 
Church in America and the Episcopal Church can make common cause together and 
therefore I think our entering into full communion is a sign of hope.

     I also think that if the churches are going to preach a gospel of 
reconciliation, they have to be able to live in a reconciled manner themselves. 
And certainly entering into full communion enhances our capacity to speak with 
one voice to a broken world while respecting our two traditions. 

     I also am aware that entering into full communion is a stage along the way 
that has already been established; a great deal has been done between our two 
churches both nationally and locally, and so tomorrow's liturgy simply marks a 
stage in a relationship that has already begun, and tomorrow in no way is the 
end; tomorrow really is the formal liturgical recognition and beginning of a long 
process of growing together, sharing together, and trying to respond out of our 
two traditions together to God's call to minister to a broken world.

     HGA: I would certainly echo many of those sentiments and hopes. To me the 
opportunity for full communion is to deepen a relationship that has been casual 
and longstanding over many, many years. But this is a step in which we take on 
new responsibilities to each other. I've already noticed how our relationship has 
facilitated staff, for example, talking together on many issues about their 
common work, and the possibilities that lie ahead. So within the larger frame, it 
seems to me that one of the gifts that full communion brings is the opportunity 
to discover gifts that each of the churches has, which it can use to share with 
the other in the challenges that we face as church bodies today in a very secular 
society and world.

     The other thing I would mention is that I believe that this relationship of 
full communion can be an encouragement to other church bodies who are in one way 
or another working toward some fuller relationship, and it says it can be done, 
and when it is done there can be benefits and possibilities beyond the ones that 
we assume from the beginning.

     So I am pleased that there will be other ecumenical representatives here, 
because it is in my view just one example of God's continued gathering of God's 
people.

     Larry Witham, Washington Times: Could both of the presiding bishops comment 
briefly on what is the toughest part of this full communion? We hear more about 
what's happening in Lutheran circles, perhaps, but if there's one area that's 
toughest to work through with your constituents, what might those be?

     HGA: Are you asking what are the issues that have arisen because we've 
entered into this, or what are we finding difficult as churches to do together?

     LW: Either where is the opposition, or where is it not working as you would 
have expected. 

     HGA: I could say certainly you've mentioned already that there has been

     opposition from Lutherans, and that is one of the things that I'm hoping we 
can address, first by demonstrating that the process of full communion and what 
it means will not bring some of the fearful consequences that some of our folks 
are assuming. And secondly, that we can work with them to try to make this 
relationship one that they also will see as God-pleasing, and ultimately for the 
good of the whole church, the whole church of Christ.

     FTG: The only comment I would make is that communion is an organic 
relationship. It's not a document, nor is it a set of legislative criteria, 
although documents and legislative criteria do enter into it along the way. But 
it really is a living relationship, and my hope and prayer would be that any 
fears or anxieties that presently exist in either of our communities would be 
resolved over time through the living of the relationship.

     I certainly see this happen in the Episcopal Church, not with respect to our 
entering into full communion with the Evangelical Lutheran church, but I've seen 
this with respect to, for instance, the ordination of women. Over time and 
through the actual experience of the ministry of ordained women, a great deal of 
the anxiety simply faded away--not because anyone was argued out of something, 
but we simply lived into a new consciousness. I think that's really the way we 
need to look at this relationship.

     Jerry Hames. Episcopal Life: I'd like to ask Bishop Griswold or one of the 
ecumenical officers--you mentioned full communion as a stage along the way. What 
are some of the other issues that are going to be discussed by the two 
denominations in the coming year?

     FTG: I'd like to ask the ecumenical officers to comment on that.

     DWP: In your earlier comment, I--this is really just the beginning. It moves 
some distance but it's really a new beginning in terms of our life and witness 
together. In my opinion, that's where some of the tough stuff may emerge as well. 
We have to learn to understand and to listen to each other, to hear one another's 
priorities and issues and maybe hear those in a new way. And then, maybe give up 
some of our competitiveness or selfishness about how we think those actions for

     mission should be addressed. 

     We will hold the first meeting of the Joint Coordinating Committee, a 
special committee created that will assist in the identification of those issues 
which our two churches will be asked to engage and to address. That meeting will 
be here in Washington. Seven members from each of our two churches will be 
present. My guess is that the agendas will be very similar about the issues that 
our two churches will want to address together. My experience of sitting with the 
Lutheran Council over the last four years, often their agendas are the same 
agendas that are before us as Episcopalians.

     DFM: The only thing I would add to that would be that we as members of the 
ELCA are presently now as of January 1 in full communion with five churches here 
in the United States, and our experience since 1997 in being in full communion 
with the three Reformed churches has led to some surprising new developments, 
things that people in the dialogue itself over those twenty, thirty years never 
anticipated would be the case. At a recent meeting we found that in areas of 
ministry exchange, such as this document will facilitate now, in the ELCA and the 
Episcopal Church, there was also tremendous overlap in matters of local outreach, 
local mission extension, multicultural ministry, women's work, youth work. The 
pensions people are gathering and also the global missions staff have been 
gathering. We have a document now that indicates where all around the world these 
churches with whom we are now in full communion are present with each other. And 
that begins a very concrete process of looking at cooperative possibilities, 
where one clergy person in our case could represent both the Anglican or the 
Lutheran tradition in East Africa, South Africa, El Salvador, for example.

     So those would be concrete examples that would come out of our experience 
with our other full communion relationships.

     Christopher Hershman, Word Alone Network News: What are your reactions to 
the hundreds of Lutheran or ELCA congregations that have taken one form of formal 
action or another, that this action changes Lutheran theology and is totally 
unacceptable to the Lutheran tradition?

     HGA: I think that saying 'hundreds of congregations'--congregations have 
taken actions stating their opinions and their concerns about the full communion 
arrangement in various ways. There are a few boilerplate protests that have been 
circulated, but I've noticed in the mail I've gotten that there are various 
concerns. Some are simply ill-informed. Others are, as you have indicated, issues 
of theology that congregations are concerned about. We need to work with those 
congregations and discuss those issues.

     Kevin Eckstrom, Religion News Service: I know that this is far from an 
outright merger between the two churches, and I don't think anyone in either 
circle sees that it is. But is this the first step towards perhaps an eventual 
merger between the Episcopal and Lutheran churches?

     FTG: What we shall be has yet to be revealed, to quote from one of the 
letters of John. You've made a point that I think is important. Being in 
communion--which is a very ancient principle; this is nothing new--being in 
communion does not mean merging. Being in communion means respecting one 
another's traditions, be they liturgical, linguistic, cultural, theological, but 
recognizing that there is a sufficient commonality of faith so that those two 
entities can share life in Christ to the full. And that's symbolized, of course, 
by being able to participate together in one another's Eucharists.

     What remains to happen in the future, I would not begin to anticipate. All I 
know is that God is a God of surprises, and often our tidy little plans get 
smashed and transformed in ways well past our imagining. So what the future may 
hold I am anxious to experience, not on my own terms but on God's terms.

     Jim Rosenthal, Anglican Communion News Service: In light of the flourishing 
relationships between Lutherans and Anglicans in other parts of the world, and 
especially in light of, in the country I live in, the Porvoo agreement which has 
certainly been a huge success, has that helped in this whole process here in 
America?

     HGA: I would say it's been largely a parallel development, and therefore 
while there's been certainly an encouragement in knowing that what we are doing 
here is something that's occurring elsewhere, I think that our own dialogue and 
our own interrelationship matured over several decades here within the particular 
context of the American churches, which is so different from the way that 
churches in Europe are related.

     DFM: We are part of the Lutheran World Federation, roughly 58 millions of 
Lutherans in the world with whom we are in full communion, and the LWF has had 
dialogues now with the Anglican Consultative Council for a long time. Actually 
Lambeth and the Church of Sweden conversation began in 1909, so it's been nearly 
a century that we've had contacts between our two communions. 

     The only thing I would add to what Bishop Andersen said was that the two 
have gone on simultaneously, the national dialogues and the international or 
world-level dialogues, and two important documents have fed into our process here 
over the years. One was 1984, with the Cold Ash Report, which came out between 
the Anglican Consultative Council and the Lutheran World Federation, and some 
years later, in '87, the Niagara Report was produced at a consultation which 
dealt with the very controversial and delicate issue of ministry, how we 
understand ministry, how we understand the office of the bishop. All of that has 
fed into our thirty years of dialogue here in the United States. So I do not see 
them to be separate, and certainly there would be fallout internationally, from 
not only the Porvoo agreement in Europe but certainly what's happening and has 
happened here in the United States. 

     With Anglican-Lutheran relations in El Salvador, in East Africa, South 
Africa, for example, would be prime examples where they're looking for, not 
models to be copied, but experiences upon which to build, and we would be one 
more of those now, as of the first of this  year.

     Auburn Traycik, Christian Challenge: Returning for just a moment to the 
difficulties of achieving full communion, we discussed some of the difficulties 
on the Lutheran side. On the Anglican side, some are uncomfortable about the 
temporary suspension of the Episcopal ordinal's preface to allow current and non-
episcopally ordained ELCA clergy to serve in ECUSA parishes, and some feel that 
might be at odds with the Lambeth Quadrilateral. How, Bishop Griswold, would you 
answer those…?

     FTG: I would say quite simply that the--first of all, I recognize that there 
is that sentiment among some. But then I would say the larger anomaly is 
Christian disunion, and a lack of communion, and the lesser anomaly is in fact to 
temporarily, as you said, temporarily suspend the provisions of the ordinal in 
order that something larger might occur and that we might enter into a fuller 
relationship. So I accept lesser anomalies for the sake of overcoming larger 
ones.

     Bob Williams, Diocese of Los Angeles (ECUSA): Last Sunday in Los Angeles, we 
were pleased to have joint synodical and diocesan liturgies on Sunday morning 
celebrating full communion. I wonder if you know of other examples in other 
dioceses and synods around the country where particularly good things are 
happening as a result of this?

     DWP: I personally applaud the Diocese of Los Angeles and the Lutheran synods 
in that part of the world; since that's my home diocese, I'm especially grateful 
for that celebration.

     It is true that there are diocesan and synodical celebrations all over the 
country. Recently retired bishop Rustin Kimsey is sitting here, and I think there 
are special plans and celebrations in February that will take place with the 
Lutheran synod in Oregon. I think it's true throughout the country that those 
parish-to-parish celebrations as well as larger and in some cases regional 
celebrations are being observed. 

     If I could also note, we were mentioning the global dimensions of our 
relationship of full communion, how it's being seen--I received a letter from one 
of our bishops, the bishop of Taiwan, John Chan, who wrote to me his regrets in 
not being able to be present here in Washington for the celebration, and 
indicated the celebration that was in fact taking place in the hearts of 
parishioners in a congregation in his diocese that could not be served by an 
Episcopal clergy person and a Lutheran pastor was aiding in that situation. 
That's another kind of a celebration that I think we're especially grateful for, 
but that's a letter from Taiwan that I think is a part of our celebration today.

     DFM: Part of what's happening, as you know, in New York City--and this is my 
home synod, so I welcome you to Washington, D.C.; also, I'm proud, as David is, 
that there'll be activities initiated here of some importance--and I understand 
also Baltimore, Houston, many places in the Southeast, in Atlanta, and elsewhere 
we hear of plans for this. We don't have a complete list yet but it looks to be 
pretty extensive. And the liturgy being used tomorrow will serve as a base, 
perhaps to be used around the country, or portions of it.

     Charles Austin, The Record (Hackensack, NJ): Much of the discussion leading 
to this focused on the nature of ministry and the nature of the episcopate. Now 
we're at a time in both churches where there are clergy being ordained illicitly, 
bishops being ordained illicitly, clergy who may not be on the roster of the ELCA 
serving ELCA congregations--there's a certain messiness in the nature of some of 
those clergy. Do you think those will have any impact long-term, or what are your 
plans for dealing with these kinds of things?

     FTG: I tend not to answer hypothetical questions, because I find myself 
often proven wrong by what I think may or may not happen. If you look at church 
history, you will see that ambiguity, paradox and contradiction have always been 
part of the life of the church, and we live through these things as gracefully as 
possible, and in many, many instances they resolve themselves over time by simply 
being patient, and extending always to one another the courtesy of Christ.

     Gracia Grindal, Word Alone Network News: A new national poll conducted last 
week by "the polling company" revealed that 73% of the members of the Evangelical 
Lutheran Church in America know little to nothing about this agreement. How do 
you expect to sell this to these people when the agreement goes fundamentally 
against their notion of the freedom of the Gospel?

     HGA: If 73% don't understand what's happened, then it's hard to tell yet 
whether what has happened goes against their understanding of the Gospel. 

     I think that this matter has been discussed very fully in our church, and if 
persons do not yet know about it, we are certainly willing and ready to give them 
any information and continue the effort to try to interpret clearly what the 
agreement does imply and what it does not imply. So I hope we can talk with these 
people and make sure they understand fully what has occurred, what I believe God 
has done with our church in relation to another Christian body.

     Jeff Sheler, US News and World Report: On the procedures for clergy sharing, 
I'm wondering if you have any concept or idea of the magnitude of that, how it 
will work out--in other words, do you have any sense of how many congregations or 
potential congregations or parishes are really candidates for having leadership 
from the other tradition? 

     DFM: The Episcopal and Lutheran bishops in the southeast part of the United 
States spoke about this in some public setting and recognized somewhere between 
15 and 20 possibilities for the opening of new mission outreach ministries which 
would be facilitated by this, and they were not capable of starting it until this 
official exchange of pastors under Called to Common Mission were to be implement. 
That'd be one example; I can't answer that elsewhere in the country. I think 
that's probably typical of many other…

     DWP: I think we haven't an exact count, we have a close count, but we have 
heard a number of situations where there is interest about beginning something. 
And the truth is, some things have been going on for some time that will now be 
regarded as 'legal,' if you will. So I think that the mission field is, in some 
sense has been underway. I think the document that Dan Martensen referred to 
earlier should be an encouragement and a help to the dioceses and synods to look 
at the possibility of clergy sharing. And this could take place in rural 
settings, again as in the case Bishop Kimsey identified earlier from Eastern 
Oregon, as well as in urban settings and other ministries. But I think that we'll 
find our way along the way; I think there are going to be some surprises, but I 
think the interest, the hunger, and God knows, the need for common mission is 
certainly present.

     Jeff Sheler: To the extent that--would you expect that this would be a 
situation where an established parish needs a minister, their minister is 
retiring or for whatever reason left, and they began a search process for a 
replacement. Would you expect names from both denominations to be brought before 
a congregation, or is that really not what is envisioned?

     DWP: I think the provisions of Called to Common Mission itself don't really 
foresee a sort of mass defection movement, if you will, in that sense of people 
moving from one church to the other. I don't think that that's in the mind of 
what's being offered in this work.

     But what I do think is in certain situations where there are no Episcopal 
clergy or few Episcopal clergy, we may find that there may be Lutheran 
congregations with clergy, or clergy that are available in those regions that 
could facilitate or serve as a clergyperson in that place. There may be 
specialized ministries that Lutherans may have that are underdeveloped in terms 
of our Episcopal Church experience; we may have an opportunity to interchange in 
that way.

     But we will continue to have our hiring practices and policies that are 
distinct and unique to each of our churches, and the procedures that are in place 
right now will continue for our two churches. But I think there will be a 
welcomeness and an openness to the possibility that we can support and assist 
each other in the exchange of ordained clergy.

     Alan Elsner, Reuters: Can you explain to me, who is neither a Lutheran nor 
an Episcopalian nor even a Christian, what if any the doctrinal or theological 
differences that still remain between you?

     HGA: Well, I could start. Frank will, if I miss any…Actually, the doctrinal 
foundation is very broad and very much the same. That was one of the reasons that 
the document we used to get together, called Called to Common Mission, begins 
with a review of doctrinal positions of the two churches. We both share the very 
long historic Christian creeds, and then we've gone on to elaborate specific 
other areas of theology. It's on that kind of theological agreement that we felt 
comfortable in moving ahead with full communion. The issues between us have been 
most generally issues on how we structure our ministries, rather than on…

     FTG: I would add to what Bishop Andersen has said, we are both liturgical 
traditions, which means that we share a heritage that is quite similar. Therefore 
our capacity to find ourselves at home in one another's liturgies is almost 
immediate. As Bishop Andersen said, some of the ways in which we structure the 
internal life of the church offers some divergence, and that's precisely what the 
Called to Common Mission seeks to provide for and in some ways overcome as we 
look to the future.